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15 comments

1 sliv_the_eli  Wed, Aug 3, 2011 7:32:40am

Proof, yet again, that the louder the complaints by the Palestinians and their anti-Semitic fallow travelers about particular Israeli archeological programs (see, for example, this recent hatchet job by the CBS program, 60 minutes: [[Link: www.cbsnews.com...] the more likely it is that the results of those programs is a debunking of the Arab and anti-Semites' propagandistic efforts to deny the legitimacy of Jewish history.

2 Buck  Wed, Aug 3, 2011 9:14:52am

Of course if you prove that there has been a continuous Jewish presence in what is now known as Israel for more than 3000 years, the haters just say "so what". For them it is now about the facts on the ground.

It does not stop them from telling the lie about West Bank (Judea and Samaria) being illegal, or occupied.

3 Bob Levin  Wed, Aug 3, 2011 10:48:20am

We went on an archaeological dig while in Israel. (By the way, we also passed a section of road that they wanted to widen. Can't even widen a road until the archaeologists get there first and finish their investigations.)

I asked two questions, one about the rubble we were about to sift through--Do you mean to say that the PLO actually treated layers of earth properly? Answer: No, they used bulldozers and dump trucks on the Temple complex.

Question 2: When are archaeologists going to recognize the existence of King David? Answer: We just need to find the smoking sling shot.

Looks like they've found it, and this is huge. Huge.

4 What, me worry?  Wed, Aug 3, 2011 11:22:35am

re: #3 Bob Levin

We went on an archaeological dig while in Israel. (By the way, we also passed a section of road that they wanted to widen. Can't even widen a road until the archaeologists get there first and finish their investigations.)

I asked two questions, one about the rubble we were about to sift through--Do you mean to say that the PLO actually treated layers of earth properly? Answer: No, they used bulldozers and dump trucks on the Temple complex.

Question 2: When are archaeologists going to recognize the existence of King David? Answer: We just need to find the smoking sling shot.

Looks like they've found it, and this is huge. Huge.

Dr. Mazar and her team first discovered the remains of the palace in 2005 and are continuing to discover many objects. They didn't find the slingshot. LOL The most fascinating to me was the discovery of a small bulla (a letter stamp or seal - like when we used stamps and sealing wax as kids) bearing the name of "Yehuchal Ben Shelemiah" who is mentioned in Chapters 37 and 38 of the Book of Jeremiah. He was a minister to King Tzidkiyahu.

A Huffpo article (that I will not link) went so far as to say that MAZAR had the agenda, not the Palestinians, to prove that the two "non-existent" Kings (Solomon and David) existed when there is no evidence that they did. Which is just utter bullshit.

When Israel first became a state, I believe the Waqf was pretty good at allowing the digs to go on unfettered, but as the PLO took over, they've decided there's a better way to eliminate the Jews by eliminating the physical history.

Bob, did you go to the Mount? I did in 1978, but they didn't have a lot of restrictions then. You could go all the way up to the Holy of Holies, even enter if you wanted. The courtyard wasn't restricted. It's difficult now.

Also, that you can go on digs now is fantastic. We picked olives in a Kibbutz, but what I would have given to go on a dig. And there are so few Kibbutz now.

More Mazar's digs here with a couple more pics.
[Link: archaeology.huji.ac.il...]
[Link: archaeology.huji.ac.il...]

5 What, me worry?  Wed, Aug 3, 2011 11:41:07am

I'm sorry. This article is actually dated 2005. I thought it was recent. I hate they don't put the dates right at the top.

In December 2010, a report on illegal digging was published, but only its conclusion. A lot of this occurred during Olmert's watch. I swear that man caused more trouble than what he was worth! This INN article says that the illegal digging has stopped now, but the details of the report will not be published for security reasons.

Then this report in May 2011.

In his annual report, State Comptroller Micha Lindenstrauss found many shortcomings in the supervision of works carried out by the Waqf Muslim religious trust at the Temple Mount in Jerusalem, saying that as a result, important archaeological artifacts had been damaged.

The majority of the State Comptrollers opinion is being kept confidential, as per the decision of the State Control Committee. According to the State Comptroller's report, this is "In order to guarantee state security and to prevent damaging Israel's international relations, in accordance with article 17 of the state comptroller's law."

The only section of the opinion that was made public was the conclusion, which says that supervision of the works that the Waqf carried out at the Temple Mount, particularly in the structure known as Solomon's Stables, was problematic. "These works were carried out without any coordination with the authorities that deal with legal enforcement in the Temple Mount, and without the required permits and licenses. The use of mechanical tools during some of the works regretfully damaged some of the archaeological evidence," the comptroller wrote.

There were a lot of angry people both in and out of Israel who were yelling about this. If the government had the ability to do something about it before artifacts were destroyed, they should have done so.

6 What, me worry?  Wed, Aug 3, 2011 11:43:36am

re: #5 marjoriemoon

I'm sorry. This article is actually dated 2005. I thought it was recent. I hate they don't put the dates right at the top.

In December 2010, a report on illegal digging was published, but only its conclusion. A lot of this occurred during Olmert's watch. I swear that man caused more trouble than what he was worth! This INN article says that the illegal digging has stopped now, but the details of the report will not be published for security reasons.

Then this report in May 2011.

There were a lot of angry people both in and out of Israel who were yelling about this. If the government had the ability to do something about it before artifacts were destroyed, they should have done so.

I am so off my game today. Not checking dates or links.

Here:

[Link: www.haaretz.com...]

[Link: www.israelnationalnews.com...]

7 sliv_the_eli  Wed, Aug 3, 2011 12:03:45pm

re: #4 marjoriemoon

Bob, did you go to the Mount? I did in 1978, but they didn't have a lot of restrictions then. You could go all the way up to the Holy of Holies, even enter if you wanted. The courtyard wasn't restricted. It's difficult now.

Marjorie: I, too, remember going up on the Temple Mount in 1976, before there Israel had any peace treaty with any Arab country. It is one of the bitter ironies -- and one, incidentally, which suggests some truth to the refrain of the hard right that compromise by Israel only invites greater intransigence by the Arabs -- that the further Israel moved from a state of active war with its Arab neighbors, the fewer rights Jews seem to have been allowed with respect to our own historical religious sites.

Largely, I think this is due to what you noted, namely that the Waqf, under the sway of the PLO, has been actively working at promoting the fiction that there is no Jewish connection to Jerusalem, instead of simply administering Muslim holy sites.

8 Lobengula  Wed, Aug 3, 2011 12:08:40pm

re: #2 Buck

It does not stop them from telling the lie about West Bank (Judea and Samaria) being illegal, or occupied.


No, of course the west bank is not occupied. How dare these antisemites (esp the UN) make such an audacious claim!

I, as a person of jewish descent, armed only with the bible as my title deed, may stake claim to any part of the west bank. Does it matter that my ancestors have lived in Lithuania/South Africa for the best part of the last 1000 years; that I have no spiritual ties to Israel? Absolutely not! It is my god-given right to settle there; clearly, there is nothing remotely stupid about my sense of entitlement. Any “arab” family in my way be damned.

And so what if DNA analysis shows that Palestinian “arabs” have a genetic history in the region, stretching back over 5000 years? I just point my finger at the remains of a building, which may or may not be the remains of a palace, which may or may not have belonged to King Solomon, who may or may not have existed, aaaaaand checkmate! The antisemites have no reply.

9 Bob Levin  Wed, Aug 3, 2011 12:53:01pm

re: #8 Lobengula

I, as a person of jewish descent, armed only with the bible as my title deed, may stake claim to any part of the west bank.

.

Why do you make this stuff up? I know I know. You saw it on the BBC.

10 Bob Levin  Wed, Aug 3, 2011 12:56:07pm

re: #6 marjoriemoon

Been there. ;-)

11 Bob Levin  Wed, Aug 3, 2011 1:00:36pm

re: #4 marjoriemoon

No, we didn't go to the mount. Interestingly, many Jews would not go to the mount even if allowed, since it was the Holy of Holies. Basically, we wouldn't be allowed there anyway.

We went through the tunnel system underneath. Occasionally we would pass some scaffolding, just like if you were walking on the sidewalks of New York. Most of us ignored it, as you would in New York. Until you realize that the guy with the shovel is in the center of a worldwide controversy that involves the UN. At which point the world seems completely insane.

12 What, me worry?  Wed, Aug 3, 2011 3:37:53pm

re: #7 sliv_the_eli

Will put, Sliv.

13 What, me worry?  Wed, Aug 3, 2011 3:42:17pm

re: #11 Bob Levin

No, we didn't go to the mount. Interestingly, many Jews would not go to the mount even if allowed, since it was the Holy of Holies. Basically, we wouldn't be allowed there anyway.

We went through the tunnel system underneath. Occasionally we would pass some scaffolding, just like if you were walking on the sidewalks of New York. Most of us ignored it, as you would in New York. Until you realize that the guy with the shovel is in the center of a worldwide controversy that involves the UN. At which point the world seems completely insane.

As I remember it, and maybe Sliv does, too, you could enter the courtyard in front of the Temple itself. The Altar, the Holy of Holies is inside, but there is no religious stipulation from being in the courtyard outside. Now, I think you can enter even the courtyard, but you have to have express permission and you're not allowed to pray there, bring a bible or prayer book (Jews and Christians alike), or even wear religious jewelry. I was reading a link the other day, I'll try to find it.

14 What, me worry?  Wed, Aug 3, 2011 4:09:21pm

re: #8 Lobengula

No, of course the west bank is not occupied. How dare these antisemites (esp the UN) make such an audacious claim!

I, as a person of jewish descent, armed only with the bible as my title deed, may stake claim to any part of the west bank. Does it matter that my ancestors have lived in Lithuania/South Africa for the best part of the last 1000 years; that I have no spiritual ties to Israel? Absolutely not! It is my god-given right to settle there; clearly, there is nothing remotely stupid about my sense of entitlement. Any “arab” family in my way be damned.

And so what if DNA analysis shows that Palestinian “arabs” have a genetic history in the region, stretching back over 5000 years? I just point my finger at the remains of a building, which may or may not be the remains of a palace, which may or may not have belonged to King Solomon, who may or may not have existed, aaand checkmate! The antisemites have no reply.

The rights for Jews to settle in their homeland does not preclude others from living there. Jews never precluded others from living there. We only want to settle and rule in our own land. In fact, Arabs and Christians live there today. Why didn't the Arabs accept the partition that would have given them everything plus much more? Image: unplan19.gif Jerusalem would have been given to neither Arabs nor Jews (internationally administrated) and completely surrounded by Arab lands.

No one blinks that every corner of Europe is allowed to live and govern their own lands. Or that the Arabs actually have 22 countries in which they live and govern, but not one supports ($$) the Palestinian people.

You can bark all you like but when the boots are on the ground, when you talk about the real world, real people, real lives, I deal in facts not hateful gibberish.

15 Buck  Wed, Aug 3, 2011 5:04:03pm

re: #8 Lobengula

The west bank is a made up name for what has for centuries been called Judea and Samaria. Ever ask yourself why Jews are called Jews? Well it is because they are from Judea. Maybe you want to look up the Parable of the Good Samaritan? It is not a story about a good West Bankian.

No one is showing up with a bible to claim land. There has been a continuous Jewish presence in that area for centuries longer than there was any arab calling themselves Palestinian. Longer than there was any one called Mohammed on earth (he never set foot west of the Jordan River.)

What country last owned the land you think should be called the West Bank? And what did they do with it?


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